Darius V Barrie, ON. January 20, at PM I agree with some of the other posters that perhaps one should not bend their clubs too often however to the point of your question. I have always been told that if the toe is to high you will heel it left and if the heel is to high you will toe it right.
Using tape on the bottom of the club and taking some swings on a board will certainly help. I would suggest that if you are using a board, to make sure it is not higher than the ground you are standing on as it will affect the impact area of the club if your board is to thick. January 21, at PM One other thing to keep in mind is that the final say should be your ball flight. Irregardless of what the lie board says, if the ball is going where you want and the flight you want, that lie angle works for you.
Lie boards don't take into consideration a players individual swing. Matt B Columbus, OH. Travis W Jacksonville, FL. January 23, at PM For a right handed player, the divot should point a little left of target because the divot is formed after the club has struck the ball, returning to the inside on the follow through. While a deeper divot on the heel side probably does indicate and upright lie, best to use impact tape or sharpie line.
But an upright lie would hit the ball left of target, you said your shots are going from left to right, which means clubhead path is outside to in, resulting in a left of target divot, but clubface angle is not closing square to the path at impact, leading to a right spin. January 23, at PM I tend to agree that if your club toe is digging first and your ball flight is a fade you need a more upright lie.
I just had a professional fitting and I am 6'2" and have been hitting irons for the last 20 years with a 2 degree upright. I was surprised when my fitter said I needed 3 degrees upright. He used tape and the slick hitting board as well as trackman to determine my club lie. September 23, at PM There's also this thing called "metal memory" where the lie angle will slip. You'll go to the trackman, do the impact tape, get the lie angle set, play a few rounds and then one particular club proves to be difficult to hit.
It's all detailed at the trackman site among others. Bend your clubs till you like them. You are not constrained by the factory lie angles or lengths for that matter. I do think the OEM's try to hit the "average" when determining off the shelf measurements.
Just another angle to look at this from. All these new larger, higher moi, toe weighted irons create more toe droop at impact vs. Thus your dynamic lie angle will ended up more toe down. The more upright lie angles are probably part of the design to offset this. The guys at TXG bring this up in a few of there videos. Callaway Epic Speed LS Sub 70 Pro The time frame is a bit longer than 20 years to see a difference like that.
Play lengths has changed by 0. I really think that lie angle change came since they did not want to add more than 0. Since they also changed lie angle progression we cant say that its 2. I don't care what standard is because the clubs will be customized to me.
For the amount of money most people spend on golf over the life of an iron set With that, I found in irons mainly, and some of the woods, the lengths were shorter for those of Japan, and the lies flatter. I only have some Honma blades to compare, so when I decided on newer tech. This has served me well in the irons as I play draw almost exclusively.
With TM M5 and P - their stock angles are way more upright, and keeping there would turn my predictable draw into big hooks. So, the M5 are 1. The P are 1. Generally clubs have gotten more upright, and there are a couple reasons - not all of which actually make complete sense:. Longer and light shafts result in greater deflection maybe not correct term at impact meaning the club plays more dynamically flat than what it measures. It changes for many OEM's depending on the target golfers and we see flatter clubs not always with "player" clubs.
I had to beg parents not to buy these for there 5'5" teenage kids because they would ONLY hit huge pulls. The average weekend golfer not the average internet forum golfer slices the ball because they deliver raised hands toe down and come over the top.
The upright lie angles are designed to help these players and generally, these are the players that arent getting fit. I'm more upright on most clubs 1. Ball position is even a factor. If it is more forward in long irons or you reduce your angle of attack sweep more that reduces the need for those upright angles somewhat. I really struggle with drivers and hybrids. I took years learning to play a light draw. Now I struggle with most drivers and hybrids to get so snappy.
Only thing that saved me is the tour flat adapters for callaway drivers and my trusty fairways. Iron play is strong with the flat lie angle but the sudden jump to driver hurt me until 2 years ago when I got the redline adapters.
Keeps me in single digit hdcp. Anyone in doubt about their own drivers lie angle can just take a ball marker test like we do on irons. Just adding my voice to the masses This is due to arm length, mine are on the short side; my wrist to floor is close to 37". Spent last half of last season playing irons a couple flat from that at the 5i, due to some swing changes. I'm getting older, but haven't started shrinking yet according to my last doctor visit.
If you look at lie angles of irons, they aren't all that much more upright now than they were years ago. Generally speaking, of course; there are always exceptions. In a word, yes. Lie angle matters because it impacts the direction that the clubface is pointing at the moment of impact. There are two directions in which your lie angle can be off — your clubs can be too upright or too flat. Too upright would mean that the lie angle is too steep for your personal needs, while too flat would mean the lie angle is too shallow.
In our example, the golfer in question is right-handed. The right lie angle for you is going to depend on a number of factors. First, it is often the case that tall players need more upright clubs, while shorter golfers need their clubs built a bit flatter. Also, the dynamics of your swing will play a role here, as some golfers swing on a flatter plane than others.
So the upright clubs are just fitted to a swing fault which can prevent you from fixing the swing fault. Seeing an instructor in person would be able to give you a better diagnosis though. Is there a general sense of proper lie angle depending on height?
In other words do taller players tend to need flatter lie angles, etc.? On iron shots. I have to weaken both hands and still have to aim right of the target. Yes, generally speaking, taller players tend to use slightly more upright clubs, but it is not as drastic as you might think.
There are a lot of variables in your stance and swing that affect lie angle at impact dynamic lie angle. During the fitting, I pulled a couple of shots. Went 2 degrees upright. My grouping was good, but I still hit a few left. I should have gone for another fitting somewhere else, but ended up buying them. I hope I can get them fixed. Yeah that is the danger of getting a fitting based on one visit. A good instructor will be able to identify what your optimal lie angle SHOULD be rather than where it is at that moment.
I think those Wilson Cs are forged, which means you can get them bent to a different lie angle. A good clubmaker would be able to tell you for sure.
Excellent article and really makes me think. Honmas adjusted to 1. I should never tried to adjust the clubs to one another vs. Most importantly, I want to adjust my swing weight. I feel like that is also impacting my swing. Is it possible to bend a set of Mizuno JPX cast clubs fro 2 degrees down to 2 degrees up without concern or is that ill advised?
Hi Keith, Generally, cast clubs break very easily when trying to bend them, so I would not recommend it. I am going to buy some PXG clubs online and need some advice as to the the lie angle. I was fit by a professional for my last set of Titleist AP1s and he had me at 2 degrees upright.
I was fit a number of years earlier for Titleist Bs and was told the same thing. I believe I would need to add 2 degrees of loft because when I was first fit, I was hitting the ground with the toe and slicing my irons big time. I have opened the club head and weakened my right grip right-handed which will sometimes compensate for the tendency so I am thinking I should only add 1 degree to these clubs.
Your thoughts? Hey Jim, thanks for reading the website. I hate to give this answer, but the only way to diagnose that is to see an instructor. You could also take some slow-mo video of your swing from face-on to see if you are casting. A lot of smartphones can do or even frames per second now which is enough to see that.
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